Wednesday, March 8, 2017

Recruiting, Does it Happen? Is it Unfair? Should we Care?

Recruiting, the elephant in the room. 

Since this blog's inception(2009), the #1 HOT BUTTON topic has been recruiting.  The vitriol is mainly directed at a particular school in the Huron League.  Because of course, that is the league this blog has covered before expansion.

I saw a recent post on Facebook which prompted me to write this.  My goal is to offer some points and counterpoints.  I would also love to hear what others have to say about the topic.

There is a general feeling out there, that private schools have an unfair advantage in finding talent, particularly in the sports arena(it seems that's all anybody cares about).  If a student transfers to join a great band and so on, nobody cares.

Now, I am not saying there is an advantage and I am not saying there is not an advantage.  The fact is for me, I just don't know. Let me ask you this, is it the perceived advantage that gets everyone all riled up or is it that the private school wins? If said private school went 3-6 in football every year would you still cry foul?  I contest that you wouldn't.  But because the school is great in a particular sport and goes 7-2 or better with regularity, then there must be a problem.

Does recruiting even happen?  Honestly I have no idea.  I would assume it does, but I contest it happens at private AND public schools all the same.

I am close to a particular situation with 3 individuals that went to a school that I associate with.  One individual, his parents went to Monroe High, as did his brothers.  He was a many time varsity letter winner, ALL-STATE, plays college football and held a 4.3 GPA.

Another individual, his parents attended Monroe and SMA.  His Father lives in Ida and brother attended there.  Three sport varsity letter winner All-League in 2 sports and held a 3.6 GPA. 

Individual 3, his parents live in the Bedford school district and his brother attended Bedford.  3 Sport varsity letter winner, ALL-STATE and plays college football.

I know for a fact that none of the individuals above were contacted by SMCC, where they ended up going to school.  All 3 were superb in athletics and easily could have gone to another school.  None of them were spoken to by anyone affiliated with SMCC.  None were given scholarships. They chose to go to SMCC all for different reasons.  The parents all left it up to the child and they chose to go to CC.  How do I know all this, again I am very close to the situation.

If these 3 were not approached, then I have no idea who would be. 

As I said before, if recruiting or "cajoling" if you will, happens at private schools then it most certainly happens at public schools as well.  I mean, don't private schools have to recruit students just to survive?

There are many public schools out there who stand out to me at being "guilty" of this.  Here are three.

-Ithaca- the Yellow Jackets had won 69 games in a row on their way to 5 consecutive state titles and now have 6.  Nobody in their surrounding area even has a pulse in football.  I am talking 20 plus schools.  Yet Ithaca is the strongest program in the state currently.  Multiple D1 quarterbacks along with multiple all-state players.  Again, nobody around them can find a way to scrape up 4 wins.  You can make up your own mind if that seems fishy.

-River Rouge- the Panthers have kids from all over the Detroit area transferring in. Their school buses go deep into the city. Many good at football. very good. Prior to 2012(62 years)they had won 1 playoff game, since 2012 they are 51-9 and have won 11 playoff games, with a finals birth. Is something going on here?  You be the judge.

-Saline- the Hornets, same situation as Rouge.  Kids transferring in, many good at football. Prior to 2012(62 years) they have 4 playoff wins, since 2012 they are 53-8 with 11 playoff wins.

There are rumblings dealing with all 3 of these schools, that they are bringing in kids just to play football. Is it wrong?  I'm not sure it is. 

All three of these schools are well coached, Hessbrook, Parker and Palka are proven winners and kids want to play for them.  Parents want to send their kids there to win and get recognized at the college level. Again, is it wrong?

I'll stop there and end with this.  I do not know if recruiting happens and if it does, I am not sure it is wrong.  But if it does happen, it happens at both private and public schools.  The bottom line to me is, get a good coach and you will win, one way or another.  period end of story.

I'd love to hear your thoughts.

57 comments:

Anonymous said...

I think it happens in many schools public and private. It may not exactly be the coaches or school that try to recruit kids but it definitely happens. School of choice has changed the landscape for many parents and programs. People will always try to find the way to improve their own situation. It used to bother me when I used to hear how dominant a certain school was in a sport especially when I knew a large portion of their kids weren't from their school district. Now I tend to just focus on the things I can control. I'm happy with where my kids have gone to school and competed.

Anonymous said...

Recruiting of some form happens at both private and public schools. However, if you think that any school in the archdiocese of Detroit can just hand out tuition waivers then you are crazy. I went to SMCC and never once was I or any of my teammates approached by someone by SMCC to come to school there. Do you really think Jack Giarmo has time in his day as a real estate agent to show up somewhere and "recruit" a kid to come play for SMCC? Sometimes a family wants to send their child to a school because of an academic or athletic reputation of a school but I don't think that qualifies as recruiting. SMCC hosts and advertises their school at other local catholic grade schools. I am sure Monroe High promotes their athletic and academic programs at the junior high as well. There is nothing illegal about "recruiting" your own kids.

Grosse Ile/Riverview, Detroit PSL/River Rouge, Inkster/Oak Park, Cass tech, all public schools that the MHSAA has investigated in the previous few years. I have yet to hear about the MHSAA investigating SMCC or any other nearby private school. St. Martin DePorres was investigated when they were open but that was over a decade ago.

I have taught and coached in both private and public schools for 13 years now. In my experience, most of the time when a student-athlete is transferring because of athletically motivated reasons, it is PARENT driven. Mr. and Mrs. "Smith" think that if Johnny plays for Coach ___ or goes to XYZ High School, they have a better chance of earning a scholarship. Right now if I am a parent of an 8th grader who is a girls basketball player, I probably hope my daughter is wanting attending Ida, or is a boys basketball player wanting to attend SMCC, wrestling for Dundee, football at Bedford or Whiteford or SMCC if it was 2014 etc. Success goes in cycles and so will student transfers. School of choice allows that regardless of what the MHSAA says. I am now a coach at a public school that will occasionally lose kids to SMCC or a nearby public school through school of choice for a variety of reasons. Don't like it? Well improve your academic offerings or win on the field/court/mat etc. Sometimes a school and a student in said district are just not the right fit.

Anonymous said...

I know of a few kids that have been talked to by SMCC about playing sports (basketball and football) and I also know of kids that had went to CC a few years ago from it. CC has got to a point where they've become the school of choice bc of recruiting in past years.

Anonymous said...

GI investiagted for what?! I highly doubt it. All the kids who play on the football team live on GI. I don't see Bodner recruiting or skirting the the MHSAA rules.

Chris Schultz said...

I don't think recruiting is much of an issue among the 14 teams that we will be covering. As an AD at a Charter School that services Detroit kids, I see it fairly regularly where I am at. Gary was spot on about Rouge and quite frankly, I would say that Cass Tech and MLK are two of the bigger culprits in the city. I have a friend at school whose grandson started at RB for a decent charter school that made the playoffs last season as a freshman. I have watched him grow up over the last 6 years and he has always been a stud, mostly playing Pop Warner football. His grandmother came to me on last Friday and said that they had been contacted by one of the mentioned schools and that they want him to come there next season. I told her he needed to have transferred by the 24th of February in order to be eligible next season. She said they told her and his mom not to worry about that. I just shook my head.

Anonymous said...

Ahh the famous I know a few kids that were talked to. There has NEVER ever been a name associated with a kid being talked to about going to cc. What you do get is parents saying ya so and so coach wanted me to come there and play sports. Bring some facts and the discussion can get better!

Chris Schultz said...

I have a thought regarding SMCC. I don't think illegal recruiting happens at SMCC. They have good people there who do a fantastic job marketing their school. That is their job, just like any other school. The cost is $10K per year although many don't pay full tuition because of financial aid through the archdiocese. I applaud what the archdiocese does.

I have learned a little bit about how SMCC is able to continue their excellence in volleyball through my own eyes over the last 6 months. They have had a great run there in volleyball and they have excellent coaches. My daughter plays club volleyball down in Monroe County. She is an 8th grader. There are approximately 12-15 8th grade girls who play for the same club as my daughter who will most likely attend SMCC. She has 3 girls on her team that are going there. I have also seen the rosters of numerous other clubs that have anywhere from 1-3 girls that will most likely be going to SMCC. All of these girls are class of 2021. So, you are now looking at 18-22 girls all from the same class playing solid club level volleyball who will be attending SMCC next year. (Most, if not all, go to a Catholic Grade School or have siblings at SMCC.) Imagine be able to choose 12 -15 of the best volleyball players around to fill your freshmen team. A few may play JV. Now, think a few years down the road and imagine choosing from those players the best 6 or 7 to play varsity while the class in front or behind them had 6 to 7 as well. Imagine, the talent, the competition and the amount of volleyball all these girls have played compared to most schools.

I'm not saying it is right or wrong, but these parents are all choosing to spend money on their child to improve their volleyball skills (these kids work their tails off) and they are sending their child to the catholic high school that services their catholic grade school. There these children get a solid Christian education in a competition environment that promotes excellence among all who attend.

Just an FYI in case you are wondering. My daughter is not going to SMCC.

Anonymous said...


I am in favor of catholic schools. My kids will attend, but I feel they should play in a different league, with different playoffs..... some food for thought..

There is more flexibility within private schools on where to spend money. Sorry, Flat Rock, Huron and all the public school's aren't allowed or having Private Final 4 parties with hotties and stogies to raise funds just for football. SMCC may not have a stadium, but they have the nicest equipment $ can buy. In a Public school that money would have to be divided or you'd have to have the party at the local VFW, where you couldn't get away with half of what happens at CC.


Private schools also have the advantage of being able to get kids from wherever. Unlike a public school, where a school must get their athletes from within their district or " prey" that a kid moves into their district .. Most public schools have limited number of school of choice kids. Private schools aren't taking jonny pot smoker, but Public schools have no choice.

In regards with the actual athletes in private schools, they are in most cases, not all, just flat-out better skilled. Paying for select soccer, volleyball, and AAU teams costs a lot. Parents that can afford to send their kids to private schools can also afford to spend money on their kids to play on select teams which in turn, improve their skills. and the kids that can't afford it, you guessed it they are good athletes and or the archdiocese is footing the bill or giving the family a chunk of $$

Michigan already has eight divisions for its football playoffs, why not change to six for publics and two for privates (larger schools and smaller schools). If you ever need proof of the advantage, look at this year and the last 15 years where the majority of the eight divisions were won by a private school. Are the coaches really that good at the Private Schools? I watched the D8 playoffs this year and was sickened. Whiteford that the best group of athletes they may ever have and they were blown out by a "D8" School with all recruited athletes. Jason Mensing is 10,000x better than the coach at Muskegon CC. He outcoached the guy flipping a coin for MCC, but that guy wins every year because he has superior athletes and the fact that he kept throwing the ball for no reason, but that's besides the point..they keep their enrollment down and only allow special athletes to come to their school. They have 163 kids. 80% of their boys play football, coincidence??
Bottom Line.. Schools like SMCC and Muskegon CC should be playing each other, not public schools

Gary Hauf said...

Muskegon CC has many state titles in the last 20 years. SMCC has 1 and had to beat a public school who had won 5 in a row. Apples and oranges when comparing those 2 schools. Heck SMCC has 5 Huron league titles over the last 20 seasons. Both Airport and Milan have more.

Gary Hauf said...

Muskegon CC has 7 state titles to be exact going back to 2000. He teams that SMCC lost to in the finals and Semi-finals were all public schools.

Gary Hauf said...

2 years ago they lost to Clinton in the first round. I could keep going but SMCC is not comparable to Muskegon CC, GRCC, BBR, DCC, OLSM and the like.

Anonymous said...

I'll never understand the cc haters, A) it's always the same names coming through cc aka tradition and B) when is the last time that coaches were seeking 180 pound Oline players if smcc recruited like people claim they would run spread offense and have 225 plus lineman with blazing speed athletes. Smcc runs the T to make up for athletic disadvantages no. Key recruits to run the T and no players who wana do big things in college are gona come to run the T if they are a qb wr ..... end of story

Anonymous said...

Gary,

3:48pm poster here.

Do you think it is fair that Muskegon CC plays in Division 8, cmon honestly? Or that Detroit Loyola plays in D7?

You strengthened my argument and idea with your facts. All Private Schools should play in their own playoff. Make two Divisions as I mentioned.

SMCC made it to the finals 4 times in the last 15 years?? How many times to the semi finals?? How many of the public schools that have beat them can claim that? Not Clinton, Not Constantine... It's ridiculous that SMCC plays in D6. If they get in at 5-4 last year they sleepwalk to the Regionals, with an average team.

Anonymous said...

8:11

Not a SMCC hater at all. But they have advantages. Do you really think Jack Giarmo just produced all of that talent in the 4 years he had those kids?? Do you think Jack Giarmo is the best coach in region history?? Yes he is a great coach, but he always had more talent year in and year out. I've known coaches on 3-6 teams that are much better coaches, they just don't have the talent.
SMCC would not run the spread if they had 225lb lineman lol. Instead of having 5-6 decent players, SMCC usually has 11-12.. not that they are awesome of D1 kids but they have more overall talent then most.

Gary Hauf said...

If you separate private and public, all the same schools would win. The great public schools would win, Musky, Rockford, Lowel, meno, Mendon, Ithaca, Clarkston, Zeeland West, FHH and so on. It would be just way easier is all. Nothing would change.

Gary Hauf said...

Yes I do think Coach Giarmo is the best coach in the Region. Wait and see what he does at Carlson. You will have your answer one way or another.

Gary Hauf said...

SMCC has so much more talent yet have won the league 5 times, while Airport and Milan have more titles each. Doesn't correlate unless you are saying Giarmo is an inferior coach.

Gary Hauf said...

Coach Kipf has one of those 5 by the way.

Gary Hauf said...

Actually Constantine and Clinton can claim many semi and finals births. They all lost to Ithaca. A public school. Montague as well. So I would say you are wrong there.

Gary Hauf said...

To be specific, Clinton, Constantine and Montague have 9 finals births and 16 semi-final births.

Anonymous said...

So many times Chris that you've crushed this subject and stopped it from being talked about. Why is this crap being talked about now? Why are you allowing your new partner to post subject matter like this? It's talking away from the blog that's for sure. Sometimes expanding or adding someone like you have actually takes away from what you're trying to do. Just one persons opinion, but for someone who reads and enjoys the blog, I think you had a good thing going and allowing another voice to moderate what you've created with a clear bias on certain subjects has def made it a little bit laughable. I think most intelligent readers who enjoy the blog would agree.

Chris Schultz said...

Not sure exactly what you are saying.

Are you upset that I have crushed this in the past?

Upset that I allowed that to be posted?

Upset that Gary is a homer?

I'm not following what you are getting at.

Let me say this. I had a great think going, but am trying to expand it a bit. I think you, our intelligent readers and everyone else is really going to enjoy it. I promise you will

One post shouldn't deter from that, I wouldn't think.

Anonymous said...

If you are going to criticize someone's work and label him unworthy, at least have the guts to put your name to it.

Anonymous said...

Did anyone else notice that Chris just totally slammed that guy?

Chris Schultz said...

You caught that?

Anonymous said...

It won't be log before GC starts to have success and SMCC is average that people start calling for Jack to come back and make things right again. A good T team with a good coach will dominate a very average Downriver league and I believe it will start this year. Look for Jack to gon7-2 or 8-1 and win the league. The coach at Taylor Truman proved as much in an awful program. His success took him to Grandville and he's doing great things there. Jack reminds me a lot of Tim Bechler. He will have immediate success.

Anonymous said...

Monroe high will remain to be very average, with a very poor coaching staff. It won't show with how bad all three Ann Arbor schools will be in the immediate future. They could be a powerhouse with the right coaches and support by administration. Look for 6-3 seasons with immediate exits by Saline in the future.

Chris Schultz said...

Poor coaching staff? Didn't they just finish their 1st season? Give them some time.

Anonymous said...

I'm glad Gary has joned the blog he keeps it real and is knowledgeable about high school football . He makes you think and do your homework.. keep up the good work Gary I enjoy your knowledge of the game and your post..

Anonymous said...

I believe recruiting goes on all over, southeast Michigan, particularly at SMCC. It is a very hush, hush thing. Not every young man that transfers there is recruited, but many are. How do I know this, I have been very involved in the CYO, SMCC and a few public schools in our region.

The biggest giveaway is when all of these students transfer (supposedly for academic reasons) Then their grades are not good. Dead give away. For some reason our local AD's never challenge that it was an academic transfer. If they did, the transfer student would have to sit the whole year, thus, discourage these students transferring.

Bedford schools is one of the very best schools in our county most AP Classes, newer facilities. Can anyone tell me why any student would ever transfer from Bedford?

I would also say that any school in our state that has won a state championship in something, has transfers on it. SMCC happens to be the latest, they had many young men join their football program and contribute to their state championship, they have girls from out of town joining their girls softball program, to be a part of that state championship program. SMCC is not alone, many drive from all over our region to Dundee to join their wrestling program. Same with Milan, the young men that led them to a state championship in basketball were transfers. It happens all over, I personally believe the transfer rule should be very strict or even done away with. Every program out there that makes a run or has won a state championship, has transfer students on it.

The ultimately sad thing, is for those young men and women who have been at a school system all those years and earned their stripes and have to take a back seat when these transfers start showing up at their schools. There is much animosity at SMCC and Milan, it shows in their enrollment numbers.

Most all of us know that our children will fair much better in life focusing on academics than college sports. 9 times out of 10, an academic scholarship will pay more than any football, baseball, wrestling or softball scholarship will pay. Plus, they will not be left scrambling at what career to go into, because playing college sports limits your options on the difficulty of the degree you choose.

Keep it fair, stay at your local school, support your own community and focus on a career, its a tough world out there.

Anonymous said...

Mr. Hauf, I applaud your never ending defense of SMCC. Are you supposed to be non biased on here?? If were going to have people who run the blog, obviously rooting for a particular school, we should rotate people who run the blog. I am a Jefferson guy, I would be happy to run the blog next year and be biased for Jefferson.

SMCC and MCC are apples to apples. SMCC just is unable to get as many good athletes from Monroe County as Muskegon can from their area. If SMCC was pitted against all the other privates, they would be bottom of the barrel. They must continue to play public schools, that is their recipe for success. If their sports went down the pipe, nobody would pay to go there. There academics are decent, their facilities do not exist, sports is the main draw.

There should be a private schools league and the schools divided accordingly.

Anonymous said...

Mr Hauf,

Your stats need some work. Please look at SMCC football page.

--Huron League champs 23 times since 1954- no one else has done this
--Playoff qualifier 18 times since 1979- no one else has done this
--District Champs- 9 times since 2003- no one else has done this.

I could keep going sir, but that's enough about their resume.
Point is they are dominant, no doubt about it. Privates should play privates, Smcc is just preying on all of us and we continue to let it happen. If I was an AD I would push this with the state big time.

Gary Hauf said...

Thank you for the response and feedback. I'm my defense, I did pick Jefferson to beat SMCC this year. Thanks for reading the blog and I hope you continue to.

Chris Schultz said...

I would personally like to see the transfer rule switched to 180 days. It would stop much of what goes on, especially around where I work. If it was truly about academics, not participating in any extra curricular activities for an entire school year would allow the student to focus on their academics.

Gary Hauf said...

Here is the article if you want to check it out.

http://huronleaguefootball.blogspot.com/2016/10/monroe-jefferson-monroe-st-mary.html?m=1

Chris Schultz said...

I have asked for people to help with the blog for years. I have had a only a few volunteer over the years. Gary was one of the original readers and participants. He volunteered his services. He is extremely knowledgable about high school football, college not so much, but that is another story. He leans SMCC a bit, but I have always shown love to Flat Rock (1984 graduate) and Huron (where I live) more than most other schools. We see this behavior from people like Desmond Howard (Michigan) and Kirk Herbstreit (Ohio State) all the time and they are big time national personalities. It's probably just human nature. The nice thing about adding someone to help me is that they can call me out if necessary and of course, I can do the same to him. LOL

Anonymous said...

The party anonymous writes of at smcc sounds fun how do i sign up for it? lol

Anonymous said...

I do remember you picking Jefferson. Just busting your chops. Thanks for printing
my comment.

I do agree something should be done to curb the transferring. Where does something like that start? Does someone have to petition the MHSAA?

Gary Hauf said...

Transferring happens everywhere. I like the 180 day proposal by Chris.

Anonymous said...

SMCC can not get the privates their size to play them anymore. AAGR, RVGR, DDC all dropped them after getting beat two years in a row. SMCC has not come close to winning the Huron league year in and year out. The league is competitive. There are no easy draws. Other Huron schools have had athletes outside their districts when they had success. Examples: AP and Milan.

Anonymous said...

In football and basketball, SMCC has won the league more often than anybody else in recent times.

Some years they have transfers which add to all the locals already in place and are very successful. Some years, not so many transfers and they have a normal year like the rest of us, such as this past football season.

Now basketball is way up this year. 2 local kids that start, parents went there, etc. Other 3 came on board, 1 about 4 years ago, joined in 7th grade, 1 about 2 years ago, joined in 10th grade, 1 just this year. You see the success this has brought SMCC. The locals who earned their stripes are sitting. I'm sure there would have been much more parity in the Huron League this year without those transfers. All Academic transfers by the way. LOL.

It happens, Milan did it a few years back and it proved successful, in sports anyhow. For whatever reason both schools have lost student enrollment since that time. That's the bottom line, NOT state championships.

Anonymous said...

943. The other 3 came on board. That's why it's hard to have a real discussion, people just make up stuff. If Gary is such a homer he would know this. Also know the 2 kids that transferred averaged like 6 and 7 points when they transferred. A soph and a freshman. Isn't like they are seniors just walking in taking someone's spot. Airport for example also had 2 transfers and a school of choice kid in their starting lineups. Geez I hope their "locals" weren't upset. Are you new, I think the basketball success has been way up for a while before as you say the 17 transfers came in LOL! How bout we just make it intramural activities that way everyone is happy and everyone can play. Because of course that is how the real world works. Everyone gets a job and keeps that job no matter how hard they work or don't work. And if you live in the same town you work you keep your job forever because your a "local".

Getting prepared for life's ups and downs is as you say the bottom line. Not how much you played in a high school sporting event. My son played football there and between parenting, teachers and playing for a coach like Jack Giarmo he is much more prepared for life after sports. And that's the bottom line!

Anonymous said...

Gary,

You never answered my question.. Do you think Muskegon CC belongs playing D8 competition??

Gary Hauf said...

I'll answer like this. If we say no they should move up to D6, then we would have to say that about Mendon as well. Mendon has more titles than MUSK CC in D7 and D8.

Anonymous said...

This is where your Catholic Private school bias really shows up. With that being said, I think youve made some good points about other topics and it's great that people care and are talking about the league. Here is some food for thought.

If we are talking the bottom 4 divisions, 90% of Public schools can't compete on a year in and year out basis with private schools in football. This isn't a secret. The majority of HS football coaches will tell you the same thing.

The top for divisions are a little different, but not as much as you would think. Because of numbers, Division I and Division II public school teams can compete at a high-level. Schools with approx. 1200 enrollment or more.

In regard to Division III and division four, things are very similar as the smaller divisions. The private schools dominate. I would say there are 3 to 4 teams in the state that can compete with Orchard lake St. Mary's at the division three level on a year in and year out basis. These would include strong programs like Dewitt, Muskegon, and Lowell. There aren't many more I assure you. Example..... New Boston had their best team in history make it to the semi's in 2014. A really nice team with a ton of talent not only in the trenches, but with skill. They were down 40 at the half and were absolutely demolished. In division 4, teams like Country day, Lumon Christi (who has gotten smaller in the last few years), Grand rapids Catholic central, Flint Powers, Grand rapids south Christian, etc. are all teams that the majority of public schools just can't compete with. There just aren't very many teams that can compete year in and year out. That's just a fact.

Now..... with that being said.... there are always years in which public school teams just have great years. The team Clinton had two years ago which beat SMCC would be a great example. However, a couple things here. That was a Clinton team that comes around maybe once every 20-30 years. And IMO, if Jack is coaching that game, not only does SMCC win, but they also make it to Ford Field with a good chance to go back to back. Jack being the great guy and coach he is, left the cupboard loaded for his predecessor.

Hudson and your example Mendon are other great examples of teams that made great runs, won state championships etc. That era for Mendon is over and will never return. Now will they have a great team every 5 years or so sure, just like Hudson did this year. Just like Ida has had the last few years. The problem is that at small schools like this and in this day and age of Football and the way our playoff system is set up, it's almost impossible to sustain.

Unless..... you're in an area where talent is plentiful and there is a school of choice option where kids from a bigger city for example could come to play sports. Maybe Mt. Plesant for example.........Does Ithaca recruit? I'm sure they have in the past. But much like SMCC..... A good program recruits itself and kids want to be a part of something good. What Jack built over the last however many years is commendable and I don't think he recruited kids. His quality program recruited itself and prob got him some very good players over the years. There is nothing wrong with that. My only point in this whole thing is that the majority of public schools just can't compete with private schools year in and year out unless you have a special coach, community, administrative backing etc. This is hard to find and if you are a smaller public school, it's close to impossible.

Anonymous said...

10:20 now that's some food for thought. Agree or disagree those are some great points. Not just throwing garbage out there.

Gary Hauf said...

I'll start at the top of your post and work down.

-90%(your number) of public schools can't compete with the VERY GOOD private schools year in and year out. Just as 90% can't compete with the very good public schoools.

-How many other private schools can compete with OLSM in D3? Probably ZERO. Two of the teams you mentioned have 5 state titles. OLSM has 4. And you left out EGR who has 5(in a row).

- can we both agree that your statement is rather humorous when mentioning Huron and their best team in history? Yes Huron has turned the corner and is no longer what they were but they aren't quite on a state power level yet. I say yet. Huron is coming however.

-Clinton 51-8 last five years with 2 trips to ford field. You say flash in the pan. I say good program on the rise.

-Mendon. "Great run"? 11 time state champs. 10th best winning percentage in MHSAA football history is a bit better than a great run. And to say they are done is id say, premature.

To wrap this up. I think you made some valid points and your opinion on this matter certainly holds water with me.
I think your solution is to split everyone up. Private/public
If you did that. Nothing would change. All the same dominant public schools would win and all the same dominant private schools would win. It would just be easier. And that is an assumption that can easily be made.



Anonymous said...

Mendon is one of those programs that can compete and have shown it. They have been exceptional. I would say one of the 5 teams in the lower divisions that can compete with the private schools for sure. However, looking at the last 5 years, in 2013,14,15 they were knocked out by none other than muskegon Catholic central who in Divison 8 can beat average teams in division 1. A good example would be in 2014 when they played country Day in the regular season and won 30-0. Country Day made the semis that year in division 4. Another good example would be in 2013 when Homer had there best football team in history only to lose in the semis 52-7 to Detroit Loyola. How about the Napoleon Pirates this season with there greatest team in school history beating a very good Grass Lake team in Divison 6 for there first ever District title. Their reward....... A 49-6 beat down to Lumon Christi. These are just a few examples showing that the majority of public school teams cannot compete with private schools especially in Class C-D and often Division 3-4 as well.

The Huron team I mentioned. I don't really think my comment was humorous. I think it's sad. A semi final should be competitive. It's not like they lost. They were destroyed. The reason that is sad. OLSM has kids from 3-4 different counties on that team and I'm guessing between 15-20 different school districts.

I don't have all the answers. I'm just pointing out facts. Let's take the SMCC falcons for example. I have a ton of respect for what Jack has done and built there. The bottom line is that when SMCC makes the playoffs and goes into division six or most likely division seven in the near future, I would say the majority of small public schools will not be able to compete. They will beat the breaks off of teams like Manchester or Grass Lake. Now there are teams like Clinton of course that you pointed out has made a great run. I highly doubt that can be sustained year in and year out as the past 20 years will show. SMCC beat them 50-15 in 2014 and they lost in the first round to Sand Creek this season. A division 1 player in Mathew Sextonalomg with A Saline kid Noah Pore I think his name was and a ton of good role players allowed them to make a run. I don't see that kind of talent coming through Clinton again anytime soon.

I have no answer to what should be done and separating public/private I don't think is feasible. I'm just simply stating that the system is flawed. The school of choice thing really doesn't apply to the majority of teams unless you're getting a high number of kids out of district kids like I suspect a team like Ithica has done to build success. The bottem line is that the majority of small public schools can't compete on a year in and year out basis against private schools like Lumon Christi, Detroit country Day, Muskegon Catholic central, grand rapids Catholic central, grand rapids south Christian, Waterford our Lady of the lakes etc.

Anonymous said...

8:13, Not new at all. I didn't say whether they were recruited, you started that part. Point here is that these kids transfer for obviously sports reasons, but tell the MHSAA that it's academics. If your a transfer, just tell the MHSAA the truth, Sports, Sports, Sports and sit your time like your supposed too.

No family would take their kids from Bedford schools to SMCC for academics. There's no contest there.

Transfers, recruits, etc. is an ugly subject. I happen to know all the young men who transferred to Airport. It was indeed for academics. All of them have AP classes right now, plus the teams they did play on, the did not replace any starters. One of the young men didn't even play in Airports final basketball game. So, obviously NOT there for sports.

Playing for a good coach is always beneficial, but keeping the players and families in mind that has supported your school for many years is the bottom line!!!

Anonymous said...

So if we all say academics then it's ok to take a "locals" spot. Just as long as its academics. So the 3 that started over locals this year it's ok that kids that have been playing in the program since 7th grade. It's ok because it's academics. And by the way smcc is a 4 year school. Not every kid in mces goes to the high school. Unlike the kids at wagar. Who will all go to Airport there is a little more support there than mces. Parents aren't really supporting smcc until the 9th gr. But you sure know a lot about all the schools. Until you know for a fact and know a kids or families sitituation then you probably shouldn't pass judgement.
Much like bringing up Airports 3 kids plus another one that plays baseball school of choice. You are quick to say academics. One of the transfers from Monroe I read in the paper that his brother stayed at Monroe so the parents wanted a better education for one and not the other. That's why you shouldn't pass judgement on people. I don't know and because of that I respect those kids and parents decision to transfer. That sitituation was obviously better than the one their son was in before.

So in your mind transfers should be judged on how talented they are. Everyone gets them. Milan Airport Huron Flat rock Riverview, and Smcc all have gotten transfers in the last 10 years. Basketball, football and baseball. Parents do what is best for their kids. And if that is getting them out of an unhealthy situation then good for them.

I for one agree that if you transfer you should sit out a full year. But your just on here assuming you know why a kid transferred when you really don't know. Why would a family leave Bedford, good academics, solid basketball program. He was a starter as a soph. Play in a great league, more college exposure. They have sent kids to play in college. No reason to transfer for basketball. Maybe there was something else factored in. You really are barking up the wrong tree.

Anonymous said...

I could continue this for awhile. Perhaps you are a parent of one of the transfers.
I do not agree with transferring at all, to be honest. You should stay at your local school and do your best. Good parenting and good students will have success wherever they go to school. Good athletes will also succeed and play college sports wherever they go to school. You have to expose yourself to the right resources, visit the college you wish to attend. Been there, done this. Many colleges recruit outside of what they see at the High School level. Football is an exception to that.

The reasons kids transfer is always a mystery, LOL. but when 3 kids transfer, they are immdediate starters, always mentioned in newspaper, numbers are padded because they get to play when their team is up by 30, obviously, this is the reason they came to this school. I am eliminating the guess work. Transferring does take a locals spot and that is unfair.

I know a few transfers and I know why they transferred. Other than a safety issue or a family move, transfers should not happen. Like anything else in this world, once the door is opened to it, others will do it and abuse it. In the end 95% of these transfers end up no better than they would have if they stayed where they came from.

Bedford is an excellent school, more academic offerings than any other school in Monroe County. If your really leaving Bedford for academic reasons than that simply isn't true. But almost all transfers say they are leaving for academics so they can play sports sooner. I think that is very misleading and the state should do something. If I was a local AD, I would be all over the MHSAA about this.

I think its all a waste of time. I would like to hear back from any transfers parents down the road and see how it compares to the kids who stayed where they started. All this stuff is parent doing in hopes of some great success. Well, I got news for you, A successful person will succeed no matter where they go, the ones who aren't sure if they will succeed are the ones searching for something better.

It all starts at home. Good luck whoever you are.

Anonymous said...

Yeah I know you know a few transfers. All transfers that go to smcc do that to play sports. All other transfers to other schools transfer for academic reasons. And by the way it's not 3 transfers. This whole thing started because you gave false info and you continue to give false info. Obviously it hard to have a discussion because all you do is say the same thing in a different way. Glad you live in your perfect little world that nothing goes wrong and you obviously are the best parent ever. Just on here on judging kids, families, schools, and criticizing why people do things. But you sure are quick to spew crap. Just don't get how you have 3 kids that transferred or school of choice and they start but that's ok. Smcc had 2 kids that came in and somehow it's totally wrong.

One of the transfers had to sit out a year because he played for the Jv coach in the summer. So a kid leaves a school after playing for the Jv coach in the summer and that's ok to you. Like I said it's not a discussion it's you bashing smcc. If you were really concerned with the issue you would address all of these transfers and not just give the they transferred for academics. The school of choice kid played for your varsity baseball coach in the summer before 8th gr. And now he's at that school and he's not the only one. See these are facts you give assumptions. But again you don't address that. If you were a local ad would you be all over that also. No because it benefits you. Don't really care what people do or how they parent not for me to judge. But I guess it is for you to judge.
Have friends at both schools so a little more informed than what you think.

Anonymous said...

We live in the U-S-A where freedom reigns. Fundamentally, you can go to any school you want for any reason. This is verified by the whole concept of "open school districts". The MHSAA does a token job of preventing the worst of the worst - that's all they can do.

What riles me is what the definition of "recruiting" is for some of you. Is it when any person advocates for a particular school? Is it recruiting when someone says, "you should come to ABC High School. Its a good place."? Or when a parent whose kids play on the same summer team says "you should have Marvin come to ABC HS to play with my boy?" Recruiting is a folly unless a benefit is given. Stop using it as an excuse.

Mostly, you people are just ridiculous. So SMCC is a private school in a public league. The have the smallest enrollment and, in football, are forced to run a precision offense typically used by the military academies because they typically lack size, numbers, and diverse talent. Their facilities pale in comparison to other schools in the area. It is FACT that their academics are better than every school in the area not to mention the alumni support that comes with being a graduate of that school. Are you really serious that recruiting is the only thing keeping your Johnny from All-League? If SMCC offered boarding houses like OLSM or Country Day, I'd buy what you are selling. But otherwise, your arguments are simple whining.

It's the Huron League folks. Stop making excuses. God forbid you have to deal with the things that occur in schools around the Detroit borders.

Let it go. Work harder. Stop making excuses for your kids.

Riverview Grad, Huron Parent

Anonymous said...

Smcc is in a league where theyou belong , with bigger schools. They should be in the playoffs with bigger schools as well.

Anonymous said...

Smcc is a total inconvenience for everyone in the league football wise. They rack up points beating Class A and B schools, while playing them does no good, even if you beat them up only get Cheap points. As most know bonus points from other teams wins aren't even close to being as valuable points from beating a bigger school. You can't dispute that, Gary

Gary Hauf said...

Actually 4:47, it can easily be disputed.

Gary Hauf said...

You get more playoff points for beating a 7 win Class C team than you do a 5 win Class B team or a 3 win Class A team.